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Just like Britain and the US ended slavery - a long slow fight but with a clear vision: that noone is inherently worth less than anyone else, and that being a chattel is not compatible with that principle.

Islamic terrorism is a death cult - and if you value freedom and life, you shouldn't be so keen on criticisng the stumbling steps of those to whom it has fallen to deal with these horrors.

It's hard to tell if you are being sarcastic or not. US and Britain didn't stop slavery from some sense of humane ideaology. Read this book:
Slavery - A World History, by Milton Meltzer.
And then we can discuss it.

The British ended slavery when it became economically unimportant for them to be involved.
Labour needs in Britain changed as planters reinvested West Indies profits in factories at home, and therefore needed to employ British. So although the colonial planters feared abolition would ruin them, the new industrial leaders of England didn't care, and were ready to take the abolishionists' moral high-ground.

And the Civil War had numerous economic and ideological threads to it, but both Jefferson and Lincoln owned numerous slaves and concubines.

Hmmm - book title swapping and non sequiturs.

Non sequitur: the 'vision' was essentially civilisational, not personal. So the failings of individuals to live up to an impossible ideal in the context of the times, does not invalidate the notion (which has its roots in the Reformation meme of a personalised Saviour) of individuals' inherent worth.

Books for your delectation:
Herman: How the Scots invented the Modern world
Huntington: The Clash of Civilisations
Rodger: The command of the ocean : a naval history of Britain
Niebuhr: Nations and empires : recurring patterns in the political order

As one gets older, the worth of a wide reading in history (which after all is the outcome of human nature in all its glory and depravity) becomes more and more apparent. Keep reading and learning.

hey hon, hope you are doing ok. Sounds like its been a bit rough. Email me!! Or I worry!

But of course, the main point about Bush is that he tends to make statements that are, well, overstated.

No-one can vow to defeat terrorism (and expect to actually do so) anymore than a person can realistically expect to defeat war, violence, hunger, death and so on. Most of these things depend on an abscence of something. Peace can only exist until the next violent act, but I can keep up the violent acts forever. Same thing with hunger - you will be hungry unless I give you food.

Do you see what I mean? Statements vowing to crush "evil" or "evil-doers" or to defeat terrorism just make the guy look like a hurt teenager.

I've read Huntington and Rodger, but I will hunt out the other two. Have you read Martin Gilbert's History of the 20th Century? Brilliant, like all his work.

Hey hun, Yeah i figure too that the pkg was on that flight :( makes me so grrrrr so much for good postal service, teehee ;) anyways my friend can u re email me when you get a chance to your snail mail addie to make sure its the right one? thanks hun, luv ya, miss ya much! It has been nuts here with stampede going on and everything, but today its the last day until next year yipeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee! then the city gets back to normal for a while. lol ! hope to hear from you soon..... hugssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss, God bless you, luv, Tracy

Hey, sorry haven't been reading other stonesoups much recently. Hope stuff is ok. It is exciting that Sok is (possibly) pregnant. The puppies will be gorgeous!

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