plasticwrap

Yes but wouldnt it be good if you were sober before making any of those decisions? :)

having reviewed the list... definitely would be better to be drunk.

Should the drinking age debate really be about being consistent with other legal ages? The drinking age is a more complex policy question. There are certain questions of the real impact of the policy. For example, if we give 18-year-olds access to alcohol the likelihood is that 16-year-olds will be able to easily get hold of it, whereas if the legal age is 20, then that's probably upped to 18-year-olds. That isn't a problem with say, owning property.

I think that we need a more ingenuitive policy solution than merely changing the legal drinking age. I personally think that the way that constant widening access to alcohol (Sunday trading, selling beer and wine in dairies) has been a bad move, and I would like to see alcohol advertising severely curtailed if not banned. Alcoholism is a massive killer and destroyer of lives, the least of which is the drinker him/herself. We need to get medieval on its ass.

I disagree. When the drinking age was 20, I was 13, and I had no problem getting hold of alcohol. I started drinking in pubs at 15 and never got ID'd - or if I did, they just winked.

Since the lowering of the drinking age, however, I have been ID'd probably 90% of the time when purchasing alcohol, and I'm well over 18. I think it's much more effectively policed nowadays.

If alcohol is so very dangerous, why isn't it illegal? There's very little difference between an 18-yr-old brain and a 20-yr-old brain.

I also think that it's worth drawing a distinction between excess and alcoholism. Most people go through a period in their lives when they do things to excess - drugs, alcohol, sex, sports, diets, whatever. But it doesn't mean that they are all drug addicts, alcoholics, nymphomaniacs, gym-bunnies or eating disordered.

Alcoholism is an illness, perhaps even a genetic illness. I went through a period of drinking very heavily and passing out with mates in Pigeon Park in Wellington - by the time I was 16, I was well over it. But I think that learning curve has to be gone through, regardless of what age you start on it.

"I think it's much more effectively policed nowadays."

Yeah it is, for several reasons. The law change wasn't a simple "scratch out 20 and write 18 instead" amendment, there were other changes.

For example, before the law change being shown a fake ID was no defence for the person serving - if someone showed you a fake ID and you accepted it, it was tough luck and you should have known it was fake. Under the new law if someone shows you a fake ID, you can use that in your defence.

So in other words the difference between "No I didn't ID them" and "How was I supposed to know it was a fake ID?" was nil, so why bother IDing someone?

There are also harsher penalties now, for example police can now issue instant fines, which they couldn't do previously.

"If alcohol is so very dangerous, why isn't it illegal?"

Prohibition of alcohol has been tried. One result of this was the rise of organised crime. Some have used this as an argument against drug prohibition in general.

But to a certain extent, it's not the people who are drinking legally who are the problem (I say to a certain extent cos I know there are those who leave bars and get involved in crime etc) and the illegal drinkers are still going to be there regardless of the age. I liked the idea I saw on 3 News (??) of a drinking licence - you drink well, keep your licence, if you act stupidly, you loose it. Seems fair to me and makes people fully accountable.

Also, as a society we drink badly. I don't think it's fair to blame 18 year olds for that problem.

yah, i think it's little to do with the drinking age in NZ, and more the drinking culture. a 20 yr old whose finally allowed their first ever drink but has only ever witnessed their parents etc binge drinking and has grown up with adults recalling with glee "i got so pissed last night - i woke up in a gutter with a mouth full of feathers.. can't WAIT to do that again" is not necessarily going to be a more sensible drinker than a 14 yr old who has a glass of wine with dinner. i remember a chick at school who went off to do foreign exchange for 6 weeks or so in France when she was 17. she left going "sweet!! i can drink in bars!!" and discovered when she got there that it was EXTREMELY uncool to get drunk there - cos you couldn't hold your alcohol, you little child, you.

i think until NZ stops being a binge-society (i know you hate that word emba, but it totally applies in this situation!) then it doesn't matter what age-limit you have for alcohol.

im doing an assignment on legal drnking age and your commnents have given me a wide veiw of this contreversial argument. "Drink but do it sensible, you know your limit and you also know what your in for in the morning if you exceed it(a nice big headache or a appointment with the toilet)"

Excellent, glad our babble helped out :)